Ohio State Blows 21-Point Lead, Loses to Nebraska
Leading Nebraska 27 - 6 after an early third-quarter touchdown, Ohio State looked on the verge of blowing the Cornhuskers out only a week after an embarrassing 10-7 loss to Michigan State, a game in which the Buckeye offense managed 178 yards, an abysmal 2.8 yards per play.
And then Braxton Miller hobbled off the field between two trainers, wincing in pain as his right leg touched the ground. Miller would try walking on the sideline, but he would never reenter the game after injuring his leg on a run, leaving Joe Bauserman to manage the suddenly dormant Ohio State offense.
What happened next matched the Michigan State horror-show but added a macabre twist, yanking the first-half's excitement from underneath Buckeye feet.
Bauserman proceeded to throw wobbles into stands and Nebraska hands, completing one pass out of ten and floating an interception to Stanley Jean-Baptiste, a converted wide receiver who had only practiced at cornerback for two weeks before tonight. Unlike Ohio State's wide receivers, Baptiste had no trouble corralling Bauserman's errant duck.
Coinciding with the offensive dysfunction, Ohio State's defense, which held Nebraska to 3.6 yards per play in the first half, stumbled over themselves and allowed a Husker resurgence. The Buckeyes surrendered 309 second-half yards, 198 rushing, and four touchdowns, blowing a 21-point Ohio State lead and completing the meltdown. Nebraska won 34-27, preserving its shot at a Big Ten championship and making history. Never before had the Cornhuskers come back from such a large deficit.
It wasn't all bad, though.
Following a heated week of criticism, the offensive staff responded with an improved gameplan, and the Buckeyes jumped to an early lead, out-gaining Nebraska by almost six yards per play at halftime. Embattled coordinator Jim Bollman began the first series in the Pistol formation, showcasing Miller's legs and guiding a 13-play, seven-minute opening field goal drive.
Numbers and Spacing, or How To Run An Offense
The Buckeyes made two big offensive adjustments, one rushing, one passing. Last weekend, Ohio State failed to account for a Michigan State defender on most run plays, leaving the backside open to run blitzes. Against Nebraska, the Buckeyes adjusted by changing their formation to account for that unblocked defender.
As Ross tweeted, the adjustment came in two parts. Ohio State set their formation's strength into the boundary, the short-side of the field, and then ran away from that side, breaking tradition. Without an unblocked backside defender, Ohio State's blockers matched Nebraska's defenders and found great success, rushing for 184 first-half yards.
The Spacing Concept |
The pro-style deep passing game of a week ago also disappeared, replaced instead by simple passing routes that provided Braxton Miller quick reads.
To the right, you will see one passing combination Ohio State introduced tonight, spacing. Using 3-step timing, Miller follows a simple progression from left to right, from the spot route over the football, to the 6-yard hitch, to the 2-yard flat route. If the routes are covered, Miller can quickly decide to scramble away.
Tonight, Nebraska covered spacing well, but they failed to account for Miller's legs with this concept. With only one receiver on the backside, Nebraska had few defenders there, and Miller scrambled for sizable gains.
Originally a West Coast passing concept, spacing has been absorbed by spread offenses and become an integral part of most spread passing games. If Urban Meyer becomes Ohio State's next head coach, Miller will run spacing much more in his career.
It is likely that Stan Drayton Jr., who coached with Meyer at Florida, introduced the spacing concept, because it's never been included in a Bollman offense, at least to my memory.
A Few Thoughts Moving Forward
We saw progress and regression tonight. The offense improved until Bauserman entered, when, perhaps not coincidentally, the defense regressed. I don't know what caused the breakdown-- the youth, the lacking depth, or some other variable-- but the defensive implosion had more to do with the loss than Bauserman's ineptitude.
When Bauserman entered, Ohio State held a 14-point lead, a lead the defense squandered. Missed tackles, poor reads, and questionable effort led to this loss, and it's a certain type of loss we're unused to as Buckeye fans. It's also the type of loss that confirms what many are now accepting: Ohio State will have a new head coach next season.
I've been critical of Luke Fickell from his hiring onwards. He's made baffling personnel decisions, mismanaged the clock repeatedly, and failed to prepare his team for tough competition. Yet none of these issues are altogether surprising given the situation. Fickell's a 38-year old rookie head-coach receiving a baptism by fire at one of the most demanding coaching venues, regardless of sport.
The mistakes he's made should be expected of a first-time head coach but can't be accepted of an Ohio State head coach, a paradox that has created much angst. Whether this team were 6-0 or the actual 3-3, Fickell would not be the correct choice for Ohio State.
The pressures and expectations of a major college program -- recruiting, fundraising, maintaining a consistent staff, and ultimately winning championships-- are too much to place on a rookie. Fickell did a fine job keeping this team together after last weekend, when many thought he would lose them, and from that he should take away a certain pride.
Next season, Ohio State will embark on a new era, and Fickell will probably not be involved. He should consider those implications now and enjoy the remaining games. This season is a wash, and he may never again don the scarlet and grey.
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Guys,husker fan here
Just wanted to stop by and say hello. Fact is you guys fought your hearts out tonight. If Miller hadn’t have gotten hurt,you would have had us. Ohio State has gone thru a lot of adversity this year,yet that winning spirit,that heart still burns in Ohio State. You guys won’t be down for long,i’m sure Ohio State will take their rightful place back at the head of the table in no time. Once again,great game guys,and good luck in the future,see you again next year!
by Omahusker on Oct 9, 2011 7:26 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
It seemed like the creativity the offense displayed in the 1st quarter and a half went away. Nebraska remembered the OSU_MSU game and started bringing pressure on nearly every play. OSU obliged by taking the foot off the gas and running into 8-9 man fronts. Miller’s injury hurt, as did the decision to bring in Baus.
But the D, really, really, stunk it up in the 2nd half. THe lack of pass rush was noticeable. There was very little pressure off the edge, which also meant no backside pursuit on option away. THis could have cleaned up several plays. Wasn’t Shazier a DE in HS? they need some speed on the Dline.
Not just the DL. There were several instances where I noticed just through general viewing we rushed 3 and spied with an LB. On one play when I specifically watched I saw Sweat spying. Martinez. TM took off and even though Sweat had the angle he was beat. Bryant came flying in and stopped the play otherwise it was a first down. If I had record capability I could probably go back and find similar occurrences.
Either our LBs are just too slow in general or II think TM needed to be contained with a safety.
by RedQueenRace on Oct 9, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW, are we recruiting Ray Lewis’s son? Apparently he is playing like his dad. We need a nasty scary ILB.
by Revenge of the Fallen on Oct 9, 2011 11:13 AM EDT reply actions
I said before the game "if we're in it at halftime, I'll be happy"…
Well, so much for that statement.
Took a walk around campus afterward. Most people just shook their heads as they walked by each other. Just when we thought we were gonna have something to celebrate this season, it gets worse…
Oh well. Bring on Illinois.
To this Big Ten observer what I saw is that
a hobbled, suspended and reeling Ohio State team was still better than Nebraska. I think your OC outsmarted himself in the second half (certainly when JB came into the game) and failed to run the ball right down the throat of a very soft Nebraska front. Better luck next time. I think you confirmed the game plan for Nebraska though, punch them in the mouth and watch them reel.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Well, the 1st two and a half quarters were encouraging. This year is a wash; I felt it would be a challenge, but nothing like this.. The young players (and new starters) need to be developed, but I’m not sure our staff has that capability right now.
Regarding QB’s, if Miller can’t suit up, I see no reason why Guiton can’t get the start. JB has demonstrated that he cannot run an offense, and at this point I don’t see much difference between a Guiton turnover and a JB turnover/incompletion-fest.
"I'm not a psychopath, Anderson, I'm a high-functioning sociopath. Do your research." - Sherlock Holmes
Regarding QB’s, if Miller can’t suit up, I see no reason why Guiton can’t get the start. JB has demonstrated that he cannot run an offense, and at this point I don’t see much difference between a Guiton turnover and a JB turnover/incompletion-fest.
Exactly.
And if the offensive staff doesn’t believe Kenny G. can make the throws (though CLEARLY overthrow Joe can’t either), at least his feet add something to the offense.
You make a good point about “at least with his feet”. It seemed that our Successful Offense last night was based on abilities of a mobile QB. Kenny G can bring this dimension, and if he can hit a few ‘safe’ passes along the way (I’m thinking TE screens for some reason), then all the better. Good grief, Guiton is a scholarship QB, let’s put the lad in at this point and see what happens.
"I'm not a psychopath, Anderson, I'm a high-functioning sociopath. Do your research." - Sherlock Holmes
I’m with you completely.
If the play calling we witnessed in the 1st half was used with Kenny G, I’m convinced that we’d have a much better chance to succeed than with Joe B.
Hell, any scholarship QB who is not above contributing to the team by making a nice hit on kick coverage is worth another look.
Hell, any scholarship QB who is not above contributing to the team by making a nice hit on kick coverage is worth another look.
That was a mistake by McDonough, the announcer. Freshman DB Jeremy Cash recently changed his jersey number to 13, and he was the one who made the hit.
As a point of interest, the radio broadcast stated that Kenny G was warming up around the 3 min mark, but the D couldn’t get a damn stop. This should mean that EPIC FAIL will not see the field again unless it’s a blow out.
In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.
by Pariahwulfen on Oct 10, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m tired of Fickell making excuses for Baus! He said that they need to put Baus in a better position. Is he totally delusional? Baus entered the game with a 14pt lead in the 3rd quarter! The guy has been here for 5 yrs! The guy is 27 yrs old and can’t throw a spiral after 15 yrs of coaching! Fickell’s dedication to Baus smacks the team and the fanbase in the face!
Careful what you wish for.
I don’t come here often, but am a diehard Buckeye fan and former season ticket holder. We’re reaping what we’ve sewn. The current coaching staff is an abomination. The administration should have stayed loyal to Tressel. In the first year since he’s been fired, we’ve gone from a perennial top 5 team to a laughing stock that loses to the likes of Michigan State and Nebraska. Tres would’ve never let that happen.
Just sayin’
The truth is always the right answer....
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Oct 9, 2011 4:32 PM EDT reply actions
Well, you could say Tressel sort of allowed this situation to arise. I wish he was still with them, but perhaps, if they really can grab a great coach..this year will just be a stepping stone to better days. I mean, I give tressel the utmost respect, but lets be honest, if Urban Meyer had been the coach I believe with the style offense he runs the Bucks would have had 2 national championships at least under their belt. of course thats just an opinion…but still.
Shoot....meant to reply...see next post.
The truth is always the right answer....
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Oct 9, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Same personnel under different coaches is an interesting question
There was so many close calls it is hard to predict 2002 under any different coaching staff. This might be the best example of winning out on D you can find in NCAAF.
2006 I will put entirely on the coaches based on interviews a year later.
The 2007 season leading up to playing LSU was a freak season everywhere…
Looking at the other bowl results, and considering tOSU executed miserably but almost made it a 1 score game early in the 4th, I believe both teams were fortunate USC, Missouri, and WVU shot themselves in the foot.
I don’t think a better coach could have made up the USC deficit in 2008 or won the title.
I definitely think a better coach could have won out in 2009.
I couldn’t tell from the camera angles what would have been needed to beat Wiscy in 2010 (was the field level camera the only one working?).
This year I think any coach defeating Wiscy with this squad would be a major upset.
…so I don’t give a different coach a title win in 2002, but I give them a win in 2006.
I don’t think a different coach gets them to the title game in 2007, but who knows that year.
I don’t think a better coach gets them to the title game in 2008.
A better coach can get them to the game in 2009, not so certain of the outcome.
Not certain about running the table in 2010.
My best guess – tOSU gets 1 title under a different coach, but in a different year.
That's all we can hope for.
but perhaps, if they really can grab a great coach..this year will just be a stepping stone to better days.
I’m just sickened by the lack of loyalty of the administration to Tres. I mean playing in BCS bowls year in and year out they must’ve made a ton of $$$ in the past 10 years. Perhaps they were so arrogant as to think the coach had little to do with our success in those years?
Your belief that we could’ve had two instead of just the one national championship under Tressel….maybe. We would’ve never beat LSU in 07. But we should’ve won it over Florida in 06 for sure. On the other hand, I believe firmly that the hangover from that Michigan game was the reason we laid an egg in the national championship. We were the best team in the country that year! But I think we were just starting to come back into the conversation with big bowl wins over Oregon and Arkansas the past two year, we would have had a good chance of winning it this year if shit hadn’t gone down like it did.
It’d be great to get Urban Meyer to take the head coaching position. Is that the rumor (i.e., besides the obvious fact that he’s living in Cols now)?
The truth is always the right answer....
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Oct 9, 2011 4:53 PM EDT reply actions
You're compiling a lot of self contradictions here...
You complaint the administration didn’t back the Vest.
You praise the Vest.
You criticize the staff the Vest formed.
You note we should have beaten UF – the source of this loss was the game plan.
You claim we could have never beaten LSU – this game came down to execution on the field.
To complete the loop, you note how it went down this year – tOSU has an interim coach because the administration tried to stay with the Vest rather than immediately starting a new HC hunt.
Then you exaggerate…
“Losing to the likes of Nebraska and Michigan State…”
They’re actually pretty decent teams this year.
“we were just starting to come back into the conversation with big bowl wins over Oregon and Arkansas”
tOSU was ranked high enough to control their own destiny far more than the last 2 years – hardly out of the conversation. If you can run the table as a major and have a notable OOC win, it is the exception you don’t get an invite to the title game.
It’d be great to get Urban Meyer to take the head coaching position. Is that the rumor
I think you hit the nail on the head here with it just a rumor for an obvious candidate.
I can’t imagine he wouldn’t garner an early call (unlike other coaches, it is easy to keep this inquiry under wraps) but I have seen no credible sources cited.
Tressel had things HIS way....
….and now that he’s gone and replaced by Fickell, it’s all gone to shit. That’s pretty obvious. Almost like Tres had a self destruct bomb in the program that detonated the minute he left.
Then you exaggerate…
"Losing to the likes of Nebraska and Michigan State…"
They’re actually pretty decent teams this year.
LOL, OK, maybe Nebraska, but never Michigan State. NEVER!
I got no comeback for the Florida game…it was what it was. But we got killed on the field against LSU. They let up on the gas by early in the 2nd half. They were the best team in the country that year, by far.
The truth is always the right answer....
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Oct 10, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
….and now that he’s gone and replaced by Fickell, it’s all gone to shit. That’s pretty obvious. Almost like Tres had a self destruct bomb in the program that detonated the minute he left.
Luke as full time HC was not planned – it is the result of releasing the Vest late.
If the Vest was released earlier and a new HC found, you would have a different staff.
But we got killed on the field against LSU.I don’t wholly disagree, but I put the problem on execution, not the game plan or play calling.
They let up on the gas by early in the 2nd half. They were the best team in the country that year, by far.
I don’t think I would be the only one to disagree and claim the best team didn’t play for the title.
USC fell to Oregon (who went from among the best top top 1/3 PAC conference on 1 injury) and 1 of the many, many upsets that year against Stanford. They went on to pummel Illinois in the Rose, a game that wasn’t as close as the blow out score.
Every team has another they just don’t line up well against – for the 2007 Missouri squad that was OU. In their 1 game against the SEC, they blew out Arkansas.
WVU had the perfect pieces to run RR’s offense but fell at a bad time to Pittsburgh in another of the myriad of 2007 upsets.
tOSU was the benefactor of these upsets (and more), a freak injury to tSUN’s starting QB, and PSU upsets. They may have had the best record among the majors, but they wouldn’t have wanted to tangle with USC, Missouri, or WVU in the 2007 post season.
With 2 losses and 6 wins by a score or less which included the need for comebacks against some dismal teams, LSU was not the best team.
The most that can be said of the 2 teams in the 2007 NCG was that they were the most deserving, with LSU defeating the ACC champ and able to point to injuries the rest of the season, and tOSU with the best record of the majors.
OK, maybe Nebraska, but never Michigan State.
Nobody gained more from the RR tenure at tSUN than Sparty who was able to get a boost in recruiting. it has yet to be seen if it can continue now that RR is gone.
That LSU injury situation was important. With key players sidelined or hampered by injuries they fought their way through a conference that has been the toughest by far for some time now and their only 2 losses were in overtime. By the time the Buckeyes played them they were rested and healthy and were the same team that annihilated Va Tech early in the season.
USC drubbed Illinois, yes. But I remember just about everything going wrong that could have gone wrong for the Illini. The moved the ball on USC and despite 4 TOs had around 450 yards of total offense. They were a very young team and it showed. LSU was a veteran squad and they were more battle-tested than any other team vying for a place in the championship game.
LSU would not have made the same mistakes and would not have fallen apart the way Illinois did. Hell, we smacked them in the mouth in the first quarter and they just shrugged it off and went about their game.
OSU did not belong in that game. But IMO LSU did and I would have taken LSU over USC or any other team straight up.
by RedQueenRace on Oct 10, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
LSU did and I would have taken LSU over USC or any other team straight up.
You are probably among the few to give them so much confidence over USC, WVU, or Missouri in 2007.
As you noted, the tOSU squad wasn’t great and executed poorly but were still in good position early in the 4th to pull within a score.
While it looks good when written, I didn’t see LSU stepping off the gas – I saw a return of a good D and a lack of the few big broken plays that LSU enjoyed in the 2nd. I don’t think it is Les’s style to let off the gas in any game, particularly when the outcome is still in doubt.
Blowing out VT was impressive and likely earned them the nod over the other 2 loss teams, but VT wasn’t a top caliber team and much can be written off to being an early season game on the road.
Placed all together, there is a lot more to question LSUs prowess than proclaim it.
The OP said LSU let off the gas, not me. But IIRC they did shelve the passing game later in the 2nd half and principally ran the ball.
I will repeat that Illinois racked up almost 450 yards despite 4 TOs. I was not impressed with USC’s defense. Even when Illinois did things right bad things happened. Like the defensive pressure during an option or toss sweep (can’t remember which) that caused a bad pitch only to have the ball bounce straight up into McKnight’s hands in stride and leading to a huge gain that put them in scoring territory instead of a loss or TO. It also happened when Illinois had closed the gap and had some momentum. They fell apart after that. USC was obviously better but I could not believe the bad breaks Illinois was getting on top of it.
USC shredded Illinois with their passing game. Big 10 secondaries suck. The same thing happened to PSU when they went to the Rose Bowl and I knew it was going to happen. They had a defense that looked good in the Big 10 but had a weak secondary masked by the fact that there wasn’t a Big 10 passing attack good enough to expose it.
Against a team like LSU USC would get less time to throw and the windows to throw into would either not be there or would be much smaller. That makes a huge difference. Those sweeps that get to the outside against a Big 10 defense aren’t there against SEC squads that are both fast and physical.
West Virgina routed Oklahoma. Watched that game. Oklahoma had the speed to contain Pat White and Devine but was very undisciplined. Time and time again they would overrun plays on the edge and a simple cutback would leave 2-3 Oklahoma defenders standing near the sideline. They were another “impress by scoring a lot” type of team. Beat Louisville 38-31 and Cincinnati 28-23. Lost to South Florida, who got blown out by Oregon in their bowl game. Plenty to question them on too.
Missouri was a typical Big 12 low basketball score football team. Beat Illinois 40-34, for example. Got beat by Oklahoma twice, including an absolute pounding in the Big 12 championship game. Gave up 32 points to a Kansas State squad that finished 5-7. Surrendered 28 points to an ISU team that only won 3 games. The best SEC teams eat those teams up.
Maybe OSU couldn’t touch these teams but there was nothing that screamed they were the best to me. I actually think the Buckeyes were much better by the end of the year than you are giving them credit for. Just as Texas found out the next year. We were clearly a significantly better squad than the one USC beat 35-3 early in the year.
The SEC was not watched nearly as much by midwesterners or the rest of the country back then and was not respected anywhere near the ddegree it is today. Only after dominating the national championship game and bowl games for multiple years and beating teams is this respect beginning to be granted in blogs like this and 11W (they have been particularly bad about it up till this year) So pointing out that I would be in the minority doesn’t faze me in the least, nor is correctness proven by majority agreement. I’m Ohio-born but have lived in the south a long time (FL / GA). I don’t like the SEC but I’ve respected them for some time now.
Maybe one of those teams would have beaten LSU. We will never know. But just because most think they would does not make it so.
FWIW, I thought USC should have been in over us even with the 2 losses. But I saw nothing from them that guaranteed they would have won.
by RedQueenRace on Oct 10, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
LSU had a huge home field advantage in the bowl game. I seem to remember them getting very favorable calls from the refs as well. Lsu came into the game one of the most penalized in the country, but were only flagged once, and that was after Tress ran on the field and angrily protested an obvious non call. Hell, they lost to Ky that year and were very lucky to even get there. The only reason Fl was even in the game in ’06 was because the S. carolina kicker missed a very easy field goal.
They lost to Kentucky at Kentucky in triple overtime with key injured players. Both of their losses were in overtime.
That Kentucky team won 8 games that year including their bowl game. Their only “bad” loss was to South Carolina at SC.
The SEC back then was far more balanced than what we have seen the past 2 years and it was the best conference in the country. Doesn’t make LSU the best team but people are ragging on them for having 2 losses and close games in a very tough conference. The SEC wound up with 5 teams in the top 15 in the final AP poll that year.
LSU gets criticized for 2 overtime losses that year, yet the other teams mentioned lost 2 games in regulation in weaker conferences.
by RedQueenRace on Oct 10, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I was actually in Lexington during that game and Miles’ ineptitude was on display during that game. That year Miles and company received a ton of luck in a few games. I’m not saying they weren’t good or talented, i’m just saying they weren’t world beaters.
Go Bucks!!
I’m not saying they weren’t good or talented, i’m just saying they weren’t world beaters.
I have no problem with that. No team was a “world beater” that year. They weren’t a team that was going to prove dominance by beating every team by 20+. I just think that when healthy they were the best of the lot in a “if they play 10 times …” way and that, in addition to the talent level, when healthy they had the mental toughness through the adversity they experienced to beat anyone in the championship game.
by RedQueenRace on Oct 11, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
USC looked good for more than 1 game in 2007
The OP said LSU let off the gas, not me.
That’s to be expected sine it was his comment I was responding to… or did you forget which account you were signed in as?
I will repeat…
Repeat what – this is supposedly your 1st comment in this thread… or do you think additional comments and volumes lend credit to your assertion?
Those sweeps that get to the outside against a Big 10 defense aren’t there against SEC squads that are both fast and physical.
I didn’t realize this stereotype was still held by people claiming to be knowledgeable in NCAAF.
Maybe one of those teams would have beaten LSU.
I would give them far better chances than a “Maybe” – LSU needed 2 big stops deep in their territory to keep a poorly executing tOSU squad from pulling within a score – they couldn’t have handled much more.
The SEC was not watched nearly as much by midwesterners or the rest of the country back then
“Back then”? 4 years ago is hardly distant history.
How’s this for a run down of the 2007 SEC prowness…
Kentucky was 6-6 outside their win over LSU, which included a miracle win against Louisville, 2 other 1 score wins, Eastern Ky, and Kent. good luck pumping them up.
Arkansas has 7-5 outside LSU and were routed by Missouri.
LSU squeaked by Bama who was 7-5 the rest of the season with a loss against Louisiana Monroe, had 3 wins by a score or less, including Houston.*though they did manage to route Western Carolina.
LSU squeaked by Auburn which had a good year when they weren’t putting USF on the map.
LSU squeaked by Florida – it is not known how bad tSUN would have had to play to lose to Florida, but apparently 5 turnovers wasn’t enough.
…and they squeaked by Tennessee who needed a stop late in the game to put away a less than stellar Wisconsin.
Injuries or not, you would need many, many more accounts to get anyone to believe lost thought LSU was lock against USC, Missouri, or WVU.
Perhaps you would like to return to your self-contradictory statements concerning the Vest and tOSUs administration, the exaggerations of how bad Nebraska or Sparty is, or how tOSU has been absent from the title conversation for a long time.
…or maybe try to return to pretending you are a tOSU fan… you can always try a 3rd acount… but your trolling needs a LOT of work (at least remember what account you are logged in as and which team you are pretending to be a fan of)
Five SEC teams finished in the top 15 that year. That was one tough league and just because LSU didn’t blow them all out does not mean they were weak.
Repeat what – this is supposedly your 1st comment in this thread… or do you think additional comments and volumes lend credit to your assertion?
That was my second response to you. What I repeated was stated n my first post as “… moved the ball on USC and despite 4 TOs had around 450 yards of total offense. …”. Can you not even follow a thread and track poster names?
Injuries or not, you would need many, many more accounts to get anyone to believe lost thought LSU was lock against USC, Missouri, or WVU.
I did not say LSU was a lock. I said I’d take them over the other teams. Your conviction that I am the OP is leading you to make ridiculous claims.
"Back then"? 4 years ago is hardly distant history.
There is nothing about “back then” that implies it HAD to be a long time ago. What in the world do you think you are refuting with this?
Kentucky was 6-6 outside their win over LSU
Kentucky finished with an 8-5 record (all SEC losses) in 2007-2008. To get to 6-6 outside of LSU involves math that I’m not familiar with.
I was born in Ohio and moved to Florida at a relatively young age. But I was a big fan of the Bucks (and Detroit pro teams – this should narrow down where in Ohio I am from) before the move and I never strayed from it. The Florida university I attended did not have athletics at the time so I never had any reason to become a fan of any Florida school.
You are totally off base insinuating I am the OP and trolling. Furthermore your insulting tone was uncalled for. I am a different poster and your powers of observation and detection are flawed. You believe those other teams would have beat LSU. That’s fine. I don’t. Go away, grow up and come back when you can handle disagreement without adopting a snide tone and resorting to charges of trolling and use of sock puppets.
Sadly, you are a prime example of why our fan base is despised by so many.
by RedQueenRace on Oct 11, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Sophistry has its limits
Five SEC teams finished in the top 15 that year.
Pump them up all you want, in 2007 Kentucky was not a great team, Arkansas was routed by 1 of the teams I noted as among the top 3, Michigan couldn’t make enough mistakes to lose to Florida and dispelled the “Slow” cliché among all but the most adamant SEC homers, Tennessee couldn’t have handled a team much better than Wisconsin, and Bama was not NCG material yet.
That was one tough league and just because LSU didn’t blow them all out does not mean they were weak.
No, in 2007 the SEC was not all that, and pumping up the likes of Kentucky won’t move that from fiction to fact.
So to try to make the case LSU was the best team in 2007 you need…
Sophistry… to claim USC didn’t route Illinois in a 49-17 blow out because the Illini put up a lot of yards
but
a 2 score win over OSU proved LSU was better because tOSU only put up a little over 350 yards
False characterizations… to claim LSU let off the gas in the 2nd half because they quit passing with a 21 point lead late in the 4th quarter
Exaggeration… to claim the SEC was dominant but nobody outside the southeast watched the SEC characterizing 4 years ago as “Way back then”
Ignoring… beating mediocre teams in high and average scoring games in OT or on late 4th quarter scores is not a reason to question if they were more lucky than good in winning the coin tosses.
More false characterizations… pumping up Kentucky as a great team on par with NCG contenders.
Still more false characterizations… claiming tOSU was good at the end of the year when their upset loss came late in the season.
Stereotypes… that the players in the rest of the country are slow.
Oversights… that tSUN pretty much blew this misnomer away against UF.
More Sophistry… claiming Missouri losing bad against the conference champ in 1 game is a sign of weakness
meanwhile
LSU squeaking by average and mediocre teams is a sign of mental toughness.
And more sophistry… 2 upsets and 2 squeakers proves just how good LSU was
but
2 upsets show just how bad WVU was, 1 upset shows USC was a pretender (Oregon was the best team in 2007 until their QB went out)), and problems with 1 team shows Missouri wasn’t there either (please ignore their wins against common opponents).
Some more stereotypes… characterizing Missouri as a typical basketball school (as if that has any real relation to NCAAF)
…and mention injuries (apparently not a problem among other programs…
Employ enough sophistry, exaggerations, stereotypes, and false characterizations and any team can be made to look like the best in the nation. Take these away and both LSU and OSU benefited from the best teams shooting themselves in the foot in a freak season nationwide.
Pump them up all you want, in 2007 Kentucky was not a great team
I am not claiming they were great. But they weren’t some dishrag team either.
Sophistry… to claim USC didn’t route Illinois in a 49-17 blow out because the Illini put up a lot of yards
but
a 2 score win over OSU proved LSU was better because tOSU only put up a little over 350 yards
I did not make that kind of comparison between the 2 teams. You are putting your own spin on this (a kinder way of saying you are lying). The only conclusion I drew and stated was I was not impressed with USC’s defense. I never once made a reference to how many yards OSU put up against LSU, much less compare the two games, and I challenge you to show where I did. You are twisting and torturing everything so badly I can hear the screams.
Exaggeration… to claim the SEC was dominant but nobody outside the southeast watched the SEC characterizing 4 years ago as "Way back then"
Go back and look at what I wrote. My exact words were:
“The SEC was not watched nearly as much by midwesterners or the rest of the country back then and was not respected anywhere near the ddegree it is today.” Now note:
1) Nowhere did I say “nobody outside the southeast.” Hint: That means what you wrote is wrong.
2) It says “back then”, not “WAY back then.” So you are wrong again. “Back then” is just an expression. I’m not trying to imply it was back in the leather helmet days. It is merely noting that because of all this conference chest-thumping BS the interest level in teams outside one’s own region has grown significantly the last few years.
More false characterizations… pumping up Kentucky as a great team on par with NCG contenders.
I did nothing of the sort. Keep repeating that. Maybe you’ll get someone to believe you. I did 2 things:
1) Disputed your “6-6 outside LSU” claim. You were wrong, again.
2) Said their only bad loss (which was by 15 points) was to USC east. That is not correct. I missed that they lost at home by 17 to Miss St. and with that recalled I do remember that being considered a surprising and bad loss at the time. But nowhere did I say or try to imply that they were at an NCG level. They had 5 losses, something I noted. All within the SEC but that does not make them NCG-caliber.
Still more false characterizations… claiming tOSU was good at the end of the year when their upset loss came late in the season.
Ok. So instead of good OSU was ______. Fill in the blank. What is the word you would use for “not good?” At 11-1 going into the NCG how did they compare against other “not good” teams?
Curiosity question. What about the MSU (a team that lost 6 games that year) upset in 1998 in the 9th game of the season? Would it be a “false characterization” to say that Buckeye team was good?
Stereotypes… that the players in the rest of the country are slow.
Oversights… that tSUN pretty much blew this misnomer away against UF.
Stay with me here as we go back to my exact statement:
“Those sweeps that get to the outside against a Big 10 defense aren’t there against SEC squads that are both fast and physical.”
So somehow a reference to Big 10 defenses becomes " the players in the rest of the country are slow." Again you misstate and exaggerate. And since, at a minimum, there seems to be a comprehension problem here let me point out that " against SEC squads that are both fast and physical" does NOT mean I think ALL SEC squads are fast and physical.
Some more stereotypes… characterizing Missouri as a typical basketball school (as if that has any real relation to NCAAF)
Yet another misstatement on your part (how many is that so far?). I said:
“Missouri was a typical Big 12 low basketball score football team.”
I cannot believe I have to explain this but apparently I do. Notice the “football team” in the statement? It means that they were involved in contests with scores approaching that of a low-scoring basketball game. This has been a common occurrence for that conference. It ends when their teams step outside of it against good Ds from other conferences as happened to Texas against us and Oklahoma vs Florida in the bowl games the next year. Maybe not the best wording but there is no characterization of Missouri as a “basketball school.” Good lord.
OT to this specific post, but still in line with what has taken place here – tell me, what did “the majority of people” think about OSU being in the NCG against Miami? How much respect did that unbeaten record get outside of Ohio?
…and mention injuries (apparently not a problem among other programs…
The point was that with the injuries healed and players back LSU was not the same team that struggled in the latter part of the SEC season. There is nothing more to read into it than that and it has nothing to do with other teams’ injuries.
Employ enough sophistry, exaggerations, stereotypes, and false characterizations …
ROTFLMAO. You claim exaggeration and then exaggerate or outright misstate what I say, over and over. You just cannot make this up. Priceless.
What a perfect way for you to end a post in which you did little else.
by RedQueenRace on Oct 11, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
You might as well be pointing out spelling errors...
You are just replacing 1 attempt at sophistry with another.
I am not claiming they were great. But they weren’t some dishrag team either.
Kentucky was 8-5 with 5 wins by a score or less. They were average at best, 2 scored away from bowl ineligibility, not a team that should have taken the best team in the nation into a 3 OT loss.
Try all you want, you can’t pump them up to be more, or plausibly deny pumping up Kentucky after trying to diminish their losses.
I never once made a reference to how many yards OSU put up against LSU
Of course you didn’t – making the same comparison between OSU and LSU as you did with Illini and USC runs counter to your assertion and therefore you choose to ignore it.
Jumping between applying a criteria in 1 case and ignoring it in another is sophistry.
If it makes you feel better, I will rephrase to “Falsely characterize the USC blowout of Illini”
1) Nowhere did I say "nobody outside the southeast." Hint: That means what you wrote is wrong.
If it makes you feel better, I will rephrase:
Exaggeration… to claim the SEC was dominant but nobody in the midwest watched the SEC characterizing 4 years ago as distant history with the term “Back then”
…about as effective as pointing out spelling ewrrors…
Are you still claiming the SEC was dominant in 2007, or are you conveniently ditching that like the stereotypes you applied?
2) Said their only bad loss (which was by 15 points) was to USC east.
Hint – pumping up Kentucky’s 2007 performance is not the best means of countering claims you are pumping up Kentucky.
Nothing can rewrite that a couple of scores from bowl ineligible is mediocre at best.
Ok. So instead of good OSU was ______.
tOSU was the 2nd to 4th best team in the Big Ten.
They were the last undefeated major elevated to the top 2, and the last 1 loss major elevated to the top 2. Obviously it wasn’t just my opinion.
In an odd year they didn’t get an invite because they were good, they got an invite because everyone better was shooting themselves in the foot (or in the case of tSUN, literally shooting their QB in the shoulder).
So somehow a reference to Big 10 defenses becomes " the players in the rest of the country are slow."
Close – a reference to defenses outside the SEC being slower is the stereotype you use to diminish USCs blowout and season wins.
Rephrased sophistry is still sophistry.
It means that they were involved in contests with scores approaching that of a low-scoring basketball game.
…so in a new twist of sophistry, scoring a lot of points in a conference with a lot of potent offenses is a bad thing…
OT to this specific post, but still in line with what has taken place here – tell me, what did "the majority of people" think about OSU being in the NCG against Miami? How much respect did that unbeaten record get outside of Ohio?
OSU was rightfully the last undefeated major elevated to the top 2 in 2002 – they had way too many close games and way too many close scores not to question their overall ability.
Validity was provided because the NCG became a showdown between the only 2 undefeated majors, each with a win over the conference champ of another major.
The point was that with the injuries healed and players back LSU was not the same team that struggled in the latter part of the SEC season.
I would say they looked about like the same team they did all year – struggling until late in the game to put away a poor performing tOSU squad, not a team ready for USC, WVU, or even Missouri.
You claim exaggeration and then exaggerate or outright misstate what I say, over and over.
Phrase sophistry any way you want – it is still sophistry.
I see it is more of the same from you
Continued mischaracterizations, twisting of words and exaggeration.
I think LSU would have beat those teams. You don’t and that’s as far as I am going with this. Over and out.
by RedQueenRace on Oct 11, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
So ...
You weren’t pumping up Kentucky as anything more than a mediocre team that was 2 scores away from bowl ineligibility… apparently it was just random comments.
You weren’t diminishing USCs season performance by noting their opponents yardage in a blowout while ignoring the yards LSU gave up in a closer win… apparently just more random comments.
You weren’t stereotyping Big Ten players as slow… it was just another random observation.
You weren’t claiming nobody in the Big Ten watched the SEC back in 2007 because it was a long time ago, lots of things have changed, and therefore we had no idea how good LSU was as they squeezed out 4 narrow victories… just another random comment.
You weren’t ignoring injuries (like tSUN’s QB) in pumping up the 2007 Big Ten champs, but holding it as credible to discount LSU’s losses… just coincidence?
You weren’t discounting the Big 12’s potent offenses by diminishing their Ds?
Continued mischaracterizations, twisting of words and exaggeration.
It isn’t a mischaracterization or exaggeration that weakens your attempts to pump up the 2007 LSU squad.
Your difficulty is that when analyzed under any of a myriad of characterizations or redefinitions, they still remain nothing more than sophistry. This is the common result of trying to fit evidence to a conclusion rather than basing a conclusion on the evidence.
Not interested in jousting like you've done with RQR......
……but you’re just making excuses for Fickell. Talent alone should’ve allowed us to blow out Akron, but we didn’t. And by now they oughta have their shit together enough to be competitive against teams they outclass in terms of talent by a mile. They don’t. In fact, we look like Woody Hayes’ teams now…3 yards and a cloud of dust. On the other hand, that’s not alltogether bad cause at least there won’t be a coaching controversy after the season ends.
And it’s true that we lost 2 games that year and I agree that we were lucky if nothing else to even be there. Like Red pointed out, after injuries were accounted for, LSU was (IMO) the best team in the country.
My point is not to argue with you, but to suggest that we’re fucked without Tres. That’s all.
And what do you think is up with Kirk Herbstreit going by the name RedQueenRace?
The truth is always the right answer....
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Oct 11, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
And what do you think is up with Kirk Herbstreit going by the name RedQueenRace?
Wonderful. Another Dale Carnegie washout.
by RedQueenRace on Oct 11, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Just jivin'
But I enjoyed the joust between you and the Provost.
The truth is always the right answer....
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Oct 11, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, I understand and apologize. I was overly sensitive having just finished dealing with his juvenile post.
by RedQueenRace on Oct 11, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I’mm assuming the three green dots were shotgun formation direct-snaps that were not mishandled?
"I'm not a psychopath, Anderson, I'm a high-functioning sociopath. Do your research." - Sherlock Holmes
That's hilarious!
Although I don’t know if I should laugh or puke…
Please… If Miller can’t play, put in Guiton.
by D-Day77 on Oct 10, 2011 1:01 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
http://twitter.com/#!/BuckeyeNotes/status/123432138484879360
The link didn’t come through right. The tweet says
Braxton Miller will be listed on the depth chart as Ohio State’s starting QB for this week’s game vs. Illinois; backed by Joe Bauserman.
by RedQueenRace on Oct 10, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
When Baus is in, the running game doesn’t work because the defense stacks the line. I am not a football coach, but plenty of former players have said the Baus is terrible. The guy clearly doesn’t want to be in the game either. Go back and look at his eyes and you will see genuine fear. Tressel thought enough of Guiton, so that is good enough for me.

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