CNN/SI Goes Live With New OSU Exposé
by KyleSLamb on May 30, 2011 8:57 PM EDT
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PrintAfter several weeks of rumors and anticipation, Sports Illustrated went live Monday evening with a new article detailing the culture of the Ohio State football program.
The article, found here, written by Pulitzer Prize-winning author George Dohrmann, addresses player conduct and issues stemming from the NCAA violations announced in December by the university, as well as other reported allegations including the involvement with local car dealerships.
It comes on the heels of Ohio State head coach Jim Tressel's surprising resignation Monday morning. Tressel and university officials had been constantly suggesting he'd neither quit or be terminated.
Reportedly Ohio State was provided a copy of the report as early as Friday, which is often the case in such investigative pieces, and may have played at least a small role in Tressel's decision to resign--or Ohio State's decision to force his resignation, depending on one's viewpoint.
It remains to be seen if the article will do anything to impact the forthcoming sanctions that will likely be heading Ohio State's way later this fall. Ohio State's hearing with the NCAA is expected in August, and it could be several months later before any finality is granted on the situation. The Buckeyes will go with interim head coach Luke Fickell through the end of the season, and then begin their coaching search at that time.
Also on Monday evening, the Columbus Dispatch reported here that the university has jointly launched a separate investigation with the NCAA pertaining to the alleged number of vehicles driven by OSU quarterback Terrelle Pryor. Pryor will already serve a 5-game suspension this fall for his sales of personal memorabilia, but the new allegations could ultimately lead to permanent ineligibility if anything more comes of the investigation.
We'll continue to have news, reports and commentary over the next several days.
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The Vest to the Pros?
Not to be sensational but I’m tired of looking at all of this in a negative light. If the AD does the right thing they’ll find a permanent replacement sooner than later. Hopefully it’s someone who comes in with the gravity to keep some recruits. As to who it may be, what point in speculating.
One thing we can speculate on however is the next move for JT. Does he pull a Pete Carroll/Jim Harbaugh? Pete left right before the hammer dropped. I’m sure he’ll be welcome as a coaching presence in some capacity on several NFL teams.
Ohio State has conceded that six current players committed an NCAA violation by trading memorabilia for tattoos or cash at Fine Line Ink: Pryor, tackle Mike Adams, running back Dan Herron, wide receiver DeVier Posey, defensive end Solomon Thomas and linebacker Jordan Whiting. Ellis, who spent time in and around the tattoo parlor for nearly 20 months, says that in addition to those six, he witnessed nine other active players swap memorabilia or give autographs for tattoos or money. Those players were defensive back C.J. Barnett, linebacker Dorian Bell, running back Jaamal Berry, running back Bo DeLande, defensive back Zach Domicone, linebacker Storm Klein, linebacker Etienne Sabino, defensive tackle John Simon and defensive end Nathan Williams
wow (hoping & praying this isn’t true)
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life.
In Bill We Trust.
Oh, if anyone saw channel 10 tonight, TP drove a Nissan 370Z w. dealer tags to the meeting.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life.
In Bill We Trust.
Again…...swapping their own personal property, giving autographs for goods and services….
BIG.FREAKING.DEAL.
Division I football players receiving benefits, discounts, and preferential treatment. Astounding. Who would have thought.
I guess when there’s blood in the water and money to be made it’s easy to lose sight of the big picture…
by johnnyphoenix on May 30, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
This happens at every big school. OSU is no different.
It’s just OSU’s turn because non-NCAA entities brought this to light. And the real hammer comes because of the lack of institutional control and how the school handled it.
But the actions of the players were not all that bad (buying Pryor as a recruit aside, because that could be really bad).
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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When your winning titles year after year and walking the walk and talking the talk you have to know someone is looking at you
Barry Bonds was not on trial and convicted of using PEDs he was convicted for lying about it…and not lying in a casual conversation, but under oath. I recall when MN was doing well in hoops under Clem Haskins he went under the micro scope…next thing you know he was out the door for allowing an academic adviser help to write papers. It was cheating, it sucked but the school and the fans accepted it. The sooner you do the better….you think Youngstown state was an accident…ok Ill give you that…but when the same things follow the same coach to OSU then you have a pattern. Just deal, your still a good football team without him.
by DallasGopher on May 30, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
what a maroon
You think academic fraud is the same as selling their own things? Wrong troll! If a football player plays minor league baseball, guess what? That’s ok. It wasn’t as if the player’s were getting six figures to come to OSU. Give me a break.
Say what you will, but most think playing players that should be suspended is cheating when the coach knows about it.
Hey I think this really sucks and I have envied OSU football my whole life. MN once had a top of the line program long before I was alive and they cant seem to get back there. This whole thing is bad for the Big 10. I only wrote what I wrote as a response to the denial. What happened at MN was flat out wrong and it may happen at other schools and they may be proud to cheat to win, but the powers that be at MN during that period took the path that its not worth it to win and give up your integrity as an institution. Disagree you may, but that was the thinking at MN.
I think OSU is coming around to that position more out of damage control than true feelings(I suspect it was a top motivator for MN too). What I am hearing from my Michigan friends(and I take that with a grain of salt) is that there are decades old things that will come up. Its just speculation by Michigan fans that are rubbernecking of course and enjoying this way too much. But I did recall that OSU fans were not much nicer when the Rich Rod stuff was coming out and when he got the boot.
by DallasGopher on May 31, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
I agree with a lot of what you said. You seem waaay too smart to associate with the likes of tsun fans. I personally wish Rod would have gotten a lifetime contract. The ncaa offers many punishments, but no solutions. Basketball is especially frustrating because they force kids to go to school, many of which have no business being there. The ncaa is quick to judge, but has no answers.
When your winning titles year after year and walking the walk and talking the talk you have to know someone is looking at you
I hear this alot nationally…the ‘oh you traded your integrity for winning titles kinda thing" but then from the same pundits we get "OSU yeah…you can’t win the big game you get dominated by the SEC in bowl games…" The perception of OSU changes to fit whatever the point is.
It was cheating, it sucked but the school and the fans accepted it. The sooner you do the better
How was it ‘cheating?, exactly?’ I get that Tressel is guilty of covering up…and if that cost him his job so be it…but no one ‘cheated.’ And its not the same as academic fraud or giving players money. Again, these players were selling their own personal property. And as far as the other ‘benefits’ well…whats coming to light is what is going on everywhere. EVERY-WHERE. THis is nowhere CLOSE to the Cam Newton deal…or USC. The funny thing is the perception has changed so much with this ‘feeding frenzy’ that USC fans are actually decrying the sanctions against them by saying ‘look at OSU.’ lol like it is even comparable. Hell, any SEC coach just walks in the room and he immediately violates more NCAA rules than anything OSU did. The coverage of this is approaching SMU proportions…and that’s just asinine.
Just deal, your still a good football team without him.
True. To be honest as much as I appreciated what the guy did I still believe from an X’s and 0’s perspective if we had someone like Urban Meyer from the get-go we probably have 3 or more national championships…but anyways…
by johnnyphoenix on May 31, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Here's how it's cheating
He knowingly played ineligible players. Period.
by rogerja on May 31, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
As per the insistence of the Bowl Committee, which was clearly supported by the NCAA…
by johnnyphoenix on May 31, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't the NCAA, in part, base that decision on false information from an OSU internal "investigation"?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Well the article claims
that some players got weed instead of tattoos. That’s really not good.
I especially like the story about how Tressel used to fix the raffles at the football camps so only the stud recruits would win. Nice.
Pretty obvious Tressel was told to resign after the school got a load of this article.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on May 30, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrong
You are presuming that any of this crap is true. That’s the problem, media makes claims and people believe it. He didn’t quit over this bs story. I think the continuing witch hunt got to him. This article was PERSONAL and a coach shouldn’t have some ass-clown come into town and question his morality!
Whether its true or not…its easy pickings because once he was caught in a ‘lie,’ all of a sudden all rumors and allegations, no matter how outlandish, are fair game in the court of ‘public opinion.’ Sad, but unfortunately true.
by johnnyphoenix on May 31, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
coverup always worse than the crime
Tressel has knowingly lied to the NCAA three times in the past year that we know of. It’s true, Tressel doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt anymore.
I’m not shedding any tears over Tressel. I just want all this nonsense to be resolved so the program can move on and recover.
Hopefully, we’ll hear soon that Pryor is done at OSU. I don’t want him to see the field again at Ohio State.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on May 31, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully, we’ll hear soon that Pryor is done at OSU. I don’t want him to see the field again at Ohio State.
Amen to that.
by johnnyphoenix on May 31, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
SI approaches the school on Friday...school sees the article
and on Monday Tressel resigns…It’s not coincidence. Media didn’t make claims….people interviewed by media made these claims.
I guarantee Tressel would not have resigned today if this SI story did not exist.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on May 31, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s an NCAA violation. Ohio State deserves to be punished according to NCAA rules, and they will be punished. But I share your sentiments. The moral outrage over this issue is more distasteful to me than the “crimes.”
Who are they to question a person’s integrity? Do they know him? They had an agenda when they got here and were determined to be scandalous. Can they prove ANY of this? If they want to print sports stories then fine, but to question a man’s values is horrendous. Somewhere hooley and other scumbag’s are delighting in a man who has done a ton of good demise. Sickening!
The moral outrage over this issue is more distasteful to me than the "crimes."
I agree. The ‘moral outrage’ of the press circling like sharks….and the ‘moral outrage’ of teams like michigan and other big ten teams getting smacked by OSU every year and now getting to proclaim ‘at least we are morally superior.’ Hey, whatever makes you feel better guys.
by johnnyphoenix on May 31, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
the worst part.
“Nine other active players swap memorabilia or give autographs for tattoos or money. Those players were defensive back C.J. Barnett, linebacker Dorian Bell, running back Jaamal Berry, running back Bo DeLande, defensive back Zach Domicone, linebacker Storm Klein, linebacker Etienne Sabino, defensive tackle John Simon and defensive end Nathan Williams”
Ouch. That hurts.
Welcome to Denver Von Miller.
I still can't see a huge hammer coming down.
Are the crimes vast? Yes. Should they reflect on the program? No. Players did their own thing and ignored the rules. It would be a lot worse if we were paying players to come to OSU. If the Cam Newton thing proves true, Auburn deserves double our punishment.
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
I think we know that Tressel was the sacrificial lamb at the alter of the NCAA. They know this too. Hell, if i was Fickell I would reinstate the players from the 5 game ban. "Look NCAA…we gave you tressels head on a platter…thats all you get.’
by johnnyphoenix on May 31, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Just finished reading it
While disappointed by the allegations in the story, I want the unnamed sources to step up to the plate. The unnamed source “Ellis” in particular.
A sad day with Coach Tressel’s resignation, and this story just caps it off…
For more than a decade, Ohioans have viewed Tressel as a pillar of rectitude, and have disregarded or made excuses for the allegations and scandal that have quietly followed him throughout his career. His integrity was one of the great myths of college football. Like a disgraced politician who preaches probity but is caught in lies, the Senator was not the person he purported to be.
Sorry, I’m calling bull here. I, along with everyone else, understands that what Tressel did was wrong. But that doesn’t make him an awful person.
Well, this won’t win him another Pulitzer, but this is not good. I don’t really understand why people are relieved about this story. While nothing in this article is really hard evidence, there is now a huge freaking neon arrow telling the NCAA where to look. And if the NCAA finds anything… It will be USC bad at least. Hopefully everyone involved w/ compliance really doesn’t know or has everything covered up well enough that we don’t get hit with the institutional control charge.
The NCAA was already looking at the stuff. First, the YSU stuff was two decades ago. The OSU stuff from 1983 was so… 1983. The rest of the stuff was nothing new. Some of it (like marijuana) wasn’t even in the scope of the NCAA’s jurisdiction. It really wasn’t anything new and to the next it provided a few more details, it wasn’t anything that was readily corroborated. This really was much ado about nothing, IMHO.
Much ado about nothing
Their crack investigative team came up with this piece of crap? Really a reach to scandalize. I wonder when was the last time (never), the media was on such a crusade to destroy ANY coach? Early in the article it stated that Coach Tressel’s philanthropic efforts were trumpeted. When? All i heard were the media telling what a dishonest and unethical man he is! The Dispatch and espn will not ever get a penny from me!
True, none of the new allegations (dunno what to call them, claims maybe?) can be legitimately proven. Right now. But since things seem to keep getting worse every other week, I doubt we are out of the woods. If the items for benefits thing has been going on for a decade, plus the booster stuff with clarett and smith, plus the car stuff w/ pryor and who knows who else, it looks like lack of control to me. I’m no expert, but anything negative about Ohio State is bad news right now, b/c if just a fraction of it is true we we’re gonna get the hammer.
I'll say this about the SI guy
I don’t know if I learned anything new ? but man can that dude write a story…
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
As Kyle said, the S.I. piece is not nearly as bad as what was rumored. It amounts to a carefully constructed hit piece filled with anecdotal evidence and criminal sources.
Ohio State is in deep trouble, still, because it appears the NCAA was already investigating many of these issues, and there are now quotes, on the record, from player’s discussing their tattoo dealings. The joint investigation between Ohio State and the NCAA into Terrelle Pryor is also bad news.
Expect the NCAA to issue a new Notice of Allegations in the coming months, and this time there will be charges of “failure to monitor” and “lack of institutional control.” This is not over
No I don't think so
Is this ugly yes, is this to the level of usc ,, not yet I would need more then kids hanging out trading things for drugs and tats to compare to the kind of dollars that flowed at usc …
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 30, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
There are different levels here. USC said “do with us what you can prove.” OSU lied multiple times, which is arguably worse.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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by Bud Elliott on May 31, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
yes and no
in a way the the ncaa said to usc you all are a bunch of f’n liarers!
right no they are just calling the warden a liar.
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 31, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
A bowl ban…after the Bowl committee begged Tressel to play his starters against Arkansas even after they knew about what happened.
Oh…the irony…
by johnnyphoenix on May 31, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ok that was funny
but yet it speaks volumes to the mixed signals the ncca sends
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 31, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
No
But your point of the hypocrisy of the ncaa is strong..
excuse me I’ve drank a bit of jack this evening….
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 31, 2011 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Every seen the movie Shawshank redemtion?
I think we can just for now on call the sweater vest the warden!
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
Well that would make UMichigan his prison B*tch then…all things considered.
by johnnyphoenix on May 31, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yep
Great point!
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 31, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Over at WFNY, I agree with these two comments about this article.
Tressel has made mistakes in his tenure at OSU, but this article makes it seem like he was the ringleader behind the whole thing. It’s just absurd how aggressive the author is towards Tressel in my opinion. CLEARLY, the athletic director and school president deserve more if not ALL of the blame and the article lets them get off scott free. It’s just absurd.
To clarify, I’m not arguing Tressel’s innocence. I’m arguing that Gordon Gee and Gene Smith should be fired immediately for blind leadership and allowing this kind of crap to go on. If they didn’t know about it… they should have. That’s called poor job performance by Smith if he didn’t.
Gene Smith needs to be terminated immediately. If he lets Tressel walk alone, he’s a coward.
by Tyler T. on May 31, 2011 12:04 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I wouldn’t be surprised if he and Gee are gone before too long.
by johnnyphoenix on May 31, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
There is guaranteed to be corroborating evidence
If anyone has spent time in tattoo parlors you know that they take pictures of most tattoos they do. In fact the story states that the disgruntled tattoo artist had pictures of some of them along with pictures of weed that he provided to the author. With the owner of the shop indicted and the shop likely closed I’m sure there are disgruntled unemployed tattoo artists willing to provide pics to the press for cash. I get wanting to be in denial but if the allegations are true corroborating evidence will surface and will be hard to hide from. Regardless if the source is a criminal, signed memorabilia, pictures and vehicle titles/registrations will speak for themselves. These aren’t baseless accusations and dismissing the source as unreliable because of criminal convictions won’t work when they provide pics of huge expensive tats being done on players and the memorabilia the Justice Department seized has their signatures all over it. This is all just beginning, the hammer will fall…hard.
Pictures won’t do it alone. Hammer could fall, but they need more evidence than what was in the S.I. story. They need receipts and people willing to testify in an NCAA courtroom.
The original tattoo incident was open and shut, because the FBI had done all of the research and evidence-building. The NCAA will need to do it here. If you haven’t noticed, they aren’t very good at that type of thing.
Thats because
They rely on back stabbing local media and the schools to do it to them selves for them!
Thats why the lie carries so much punishment in this case!
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 31, 2011 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
receipts wont be necessary
My brother in law owns a tattoo shop and many transactions are in cash with very little record. Some of the artists and others mentioned in the article will likely testify. They can’t deny the tattoos when the evidence is permanently inked in their skin, match that up with the pictures and testimony from the artists and signatures on stuff and the goose is cooked.
pictures+sworn testimony+signatures on the stuff = enough evidence
and don’t forget that the shop owner signed over a vehicle title to a player, no hiding from or disputing that one. Remember this is the NCAA not a court, they don’t need to prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Who will testify? The guys who wanted their names disguised in the article?
What do any of these people have to gain from entering a courtroom? They gain notoriety and fame for speaking to an S.I. reporter, something that takes little time and requires little travel. The NCAA has no subpoena power. These people aren’t going to an NCAA courtroom.
I would agree TT
At worst Prior has played his last game at OSU a few scholarships maybe a one year bowl ban but that’s it!
This is by no means on the level of usc no way.
With Tressel gone things will be back to normal in 18 months and all this behind, most of the pain will be felt from now until the end of the 2011 season, you folks just need to see the light at the end of the tunnel, it’s not like you just hired RR to be your new head coach!
You see things could be much worse!
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 31, 2011 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
take a look at what happened to the University of Washington in 93
The only charge was similar to just one of the charges in this case, a loosely affiliated buisnessman gave some players “summer jobs” and UW got a 2 yr probation/bowl ban, lost 10 scholarships a year and forfeited TV revenues. That virtually destroyed the husky program and they are just now returning to being competitive. The charges here include the same allegation and many others as well as a connection between players and an apparent drug kingpin. Again this isn’t a courtroom, the unnamed tattoo artist may be willing to testify and could do so without being named publicly.
I should point out though
That this was one of the harshest penalties ever dealt for this infraction and is now used as a counterpoint to ever dishing out those penalties again for such a shoddy charge. The NCAA apparently regretted the destruction of a once great program and is mentioned as the reason that USC didn’t receive harsher penalties then they did. It is worth noting as a comparable historic example though, the sanctions could be potentially disastrous for the program.
Ok one last post
Great points however, there is a huge difference between UW and OSU huge!
For one to compare UW to OSU is like apple to a squash, UW has no Michigan Game, UW has a small History of success, UW is a small state with very limited recruiting base.
There is no comparing the 2 even with similar sanctions. Fan Base Alumni Base Conference History OSU will recover quickly.. Man you are going to force me to use the T ain’t.. come we are talking about THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY HERE !
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 31, 2011 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
UW has a ton of history
and was one of the top programs in the country. Almost every QB to ever attend UW went into the NFL. The program had a winning tradition stretching decades until those sanctions. The fact that they have been so mediocre to horrible for the last decade and a half has destroyed the memory of how dominant they once were. Seattle is the 13th largest market in the country so the fan/media base argument doesn’t hold up. I doubt the sanctions are that bad but the allegations in that case were nowhere near what is alleged here so thinking it could just be a 1 yr bowl ban is naive, historically the NCAA has dealt much harsher punishments on lesser charges with less evidence. With the state of college athletics and all the recent controversies the NCAA could be looking to make an example of a top program like OSU, it could be really bad.
and as far as the recruiting base
2 of the top prospects in the country WR Kaysen Williams and TE Austin Sefarian-Jenkins are in state UW commits recruited by all the top programs. There are a ton of blue chippers out of Washington almost every year, Jake Locker ring any bells?, and they have recruited So Cal and the whole Pacific coast historically well. There’s not that big of a difference historically between the levels of the programs, its only recently that UW has fallen out of the levels of elite programs and that was because of those sanctions. I’m just sayin the historical evidence of NCAA sanctions spells very very bad news for OSU regardless how much solid evidence they find.
Sorry I completely disagree
First decades, no they had a couple of good runs went 2 of 4 against Michigan in the Rose Bowl. To compare UW’s history to the storied history of OSU footballl is like comparing Boise State to Alabama sorry not buying it sale race!
Recruits 2 ,, 2 really consider the best QB to come out of the state plays for Boise State and 2 others site on their bench, to compare the mountain west base to that of the Midwest let alone Ohio by it’s self is a joke! Least I point to the latest census report that not only shows Ohio has 400% the population of Washington but also points out Washington is the least diverse state int he Union!
I know you sell hard but sorry a few years over 3 decades does not compare the the century’s work of OSU there is no comparing the 2 the facts bare this out.
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 31, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
not every state can be Ohio
You’re looking to much at specifics and not seeing what I was trying to say. UW is a big time state school with a storied football history in a major market. Thinking the NCAA will curb the sanctions just because its The Ohio State University is denial.
To your other points, check the facts, WA state is essentially 2 states with the east side of the cascades mostly rural areas which skews your census data, Seattle is among the most diverse cities in America. The fact that the top QB prospect is in Boise actually speaks to my recruiting point, UW has its choice of QBs and nobody wanted to come in competing with Locker playing and Nick Montana in the wings. Comparing a Div 2 team with recent success to the most storied college program in the land is light years beyond the UW to OSU comparison. UW football has been around since 1889 (a year before OSU) and has 4 national championships and 15 division titles. Yes, the reason UW has taken so long to return to prominence (they have had a few good outlier seasons since) was bad coaching choices but the damage to the programs image and recruiting pull was what left the choices of top coaches so slim.
My point in the original comparison is the level of the program won’t stop the NCAA from passing down harsh sanctions and those sanctions can be potentially disastrous for even the biggest most storied programs.
other interesting facts about the UW history comparison
7 Rose Bowl titles
20th all-time win %
D-1 record 63 game unbeaten streak
12 unbeaten seasons – 7 perfect
Pac-10 record 27 consecutive non losing seasons (77-03)
17 of last 19 QBs went to the NFL
1 of 4 FBS teams to never play an FCS team
Comparing that history to Ohio State is far more fair than comparing Boise St to Alabama. Many of the D-1 record lists they top OSU isn’t even on. If the NCAA didn’t give 2 shits about slamming that program over someone in another state (your state actually Darth) giving a few players “summer jobs” I doubt they’ll be looking to play nice just because of OSUs storied past.
depends on the coach
how well/badly tOSU comes thru this or how quickly tOSU returns to elite status entirely depends on the new coach.
In terms of maintaining ourselves as an elite team, we just received the worst news: we just lost our 80% winning coach with 1 NC, 7 B1G titles, 9-1 vs. MI.
loss of schollies and bowl bans hurt, but what really hurts is a bad coach. Kiffin, for example, still has So. Cal. recruiting at an elite level. If Kiffin can coach better than 7-5, then So. Cal. will be back in no time.
Wash. was bad not just because of the sanctions, but because of very bad coaching choices. True for other programs.
Of course there is a feedback loop: good coaches avoid taking a job if sanctions are in place.
All we can hope is that Fickell can do a good job in 2011 and tOSU can hire a top-notch coach that can bring us through the storm.
by WarBuck46410 on May 31, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said
I think as far as coaching goes you guys will have the pick of the litter.
If I was the AD I would go for Gruden, and if not him I would follow the past with what Michigan did by talking to Miami of Ohio’s coach Don Treadwell I think he’s fine coach those would be my top 2 of 3 choice my top choice is unattainable so why waist time chasing a dream.
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 31, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope once all this passes, Tressel can still be remembered as a great coach and guy. I refuse to believe he’s some kind of menace, as the media is portraying him.
by emily522 on May 31, 2011 12:16 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I must address the troll acusation
I’ve drank little more tonight the other nights
However a troll hits and runs and never backs up their post so might I say I’ll cut you some slack the blog is busy tonight you couldn’t possible of taken the time to research you accusation and for that I think you would make a fine ncaa investigator!
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
You have a habit of only popping up in threads where bad news for Ohio State is being discussed. That makes you a troll.
You haven’t broken any explicit rules, but you have been warned for posting unnecessary pictures and clogging the discussion. Please refrain from passive-aggressively baiting Ohio State fans, or you will be banned.
by Tyler T. on May 31, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Passive-aggressively baiting?
I wish I was that smart but sorry I ain’t, I say what I really feel not into entrapping people, true I have only come on the verge of bad news, simply because you don’t need me when things are going good .. ;) but this event does effect me in that it looks to cause potential loss of future enjoyment to one of my favorite games the Michigan OSU game. I believe I’ve been very constant in my remarks and arguments.
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 31, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
No one needs you when things are going bad. You aren’t here out of service; you’re here to have some fun.
This isn't fun
However it is history.
I know you see plenty of idiots , it’s what I would expect as well I understand.
In my business I find it’s always best to find the positives in everything that happened to you even when you mess up, it’s my nature to comfort ;) trust me if this was a political board you’d quickly see there is a hole other side of me that is out cold, I have a low tolerances for liberals ;) to say they would find my correspondence with you much different then they themselves are accustom to would be an understatement.
But you must understand this effects me as it does you , and frankly there is no having a reasonable discussion about this at a Michigan blog or any other blog for that matter.
I’m in no mood to pile on like they are right now and for what ever reason I’m drawn to the more realistic conversation going on here hell tonight I launch a new youtube and 2 threads and yet I haven’t even gone back to check on them simple because I’m more interested in what is happening on this thread, I find the conversation more enlightening and real sorry I’ll refrain from posting and just read ..
Peace out.
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 31, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
If this situation could become even more muddled, it just has. More than one Ohio State paysite is reporting that Bill Conley, a coach who Jim Tressel fired in 2003, is the unnamed “raffle story” source.
It was that part that gave me
The ShawShank feeling I was like no really could he really be that cold?
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on May 31, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Now come on...
…the manner in which the city’s inhabitants seek to associate with members of the football team is seen more often in Southeastern Conference..
…this is just a low blow and cheap shot.
There isn’t anything in the article that will be new to the NCAA. I am not certain why they didn’t suspend more players or penalize for former players selling memorabilia, but they didn’t. The NCAA passed on expanding to institutional control. With the coach resigned there isn’t a lot left once the used car dealer is finished up – not certain where it will go, but the discounts angle seems to have hit an end.
Good luck to the Vest. Like Woody, he will be fondly remembered. He has noted in the past he would like to go into teaching, building on his football coaching class he now instructs at OSU.
Good luck to Luke Fickell It would be a long shot for him to capture the Ohio State job, but hopefully he can translate this to a head coaching job elsewhere.
Good luck to the Bucks in 2011 – players and coaches – It is a lot of adversity to overcome, but new opportunities go hand in hand with adversity.
Personally, my next concern is the effect on recruiting and the coaching position hunt – the 2011 season will be what it will be.
What was new? And what happens now?
The biggest thing that struck me as “new” were the claims that nine current players traded stuff-for-tats.
Forget the source for now. I think tOSU has to investigate and assume some truth to the claims.
So, is the next step having those nine declared ineligible until the NCAA clears them (like with North Carolina last season)? Based on NC’s experience last year, most of the players that were eventually cleared returned by about game 3.
So, we’re out 14 players for the first 3-5 games, back to full strength by the Michigan State game?
Could be...
…but I would have expected the NCAA to already know the names of other players. It is hard to hide the fact the guy already investigated has their signatures and personal posessions.
interesting point
as I understand it, the tat5 (plus the sixth undisclosed player) were implicated because the dealer had their possessions. However, i’ve also read that the dealer had more items than what was originally searched (“several storage lockers around town” so it is said).
so maybe there is hard evidence yet to be located.
otherwise, I agree. if the players deny wrongdoing and no hard evidence is uncovered, they should be cleared to play immediately.
by WarBuck46410 on May 31, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Fortunately
When there are a large amount of suspensions, they can be rolled throughout the year, so it won’t be all at once.
That said, I don’t think they’ll just suspend en masse here. They’ll need to talk with each named individual and assess their credibility. After all, it’s their word against an un-named criminal source. That’s the only evidence (so far) against them. After all, the pictures show players already suspended. There are already questions about the accuracy of including Simon and Williams.
What’s really disturbing to me is this is the investigation the athletic department should have done when the allegations first came to light.
I don't know if that's true.
Fortunately
When there are a large amount of suspensions, they can be rolled throughout the year, so it won’t be all at once
UNC had a lot of guys out last year and I don’t think any of them were on “rolling suspensions,” although some guys did come back before others due to their suspensions being shorter.
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Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
I thought UNC did
I know Wisconsin did in the early aughts. Half UW’s team was suspended and they rolled them throughout the season.
What I didn't see...
What I didn’t see in the article was anything “connecting it up” to Tressel or tOSU. Not to say it won’t be found, but it’s not in the article.
In this regard, USC is a cautionary example. IIRC, a single photo of an assistant coach with — someone; I don’t remember who — was all the NCAA needed to claim “known or should have known” and then to determine lack of institutional control and failure to monitor.
But you would have to assume that Dohrmann asked the question about which coaches knew. And Dohrmann clearly has no problem with the unnamed-source-accusation/rumor. So, if there was a rumor about a coach knowing, Dohrmann would have put it in there.
Again, we’ll see what comes out.
BryanDFischer People really didn’t pay attention to USC case. COI got USC on a 2.5 min call from a convicted felon w/ an axe to grind. OSU will be easy.
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Bryan Fischer is really not worth the quote. The COI obtained the recorded audio of a USC coach speaking with the convicted felon in question. That is the type of hard evidence that the NCAA will have much difficulty obtaining in this instance.
hmm... still worried.
if I recall correctly, there was also a photo. one of the assistant USC coaches, a player and some booster-type at some party, the same booster-type that was hanging around the practices. this was one of the “should have known” links.
for us, my nightmare scenario is this: photo comes out of assistant coach so and so, with players X & Z at the tatoo parlor smiling as they show off their new ink for the camera.
however, i have to think my nightmare is unlikely since Dorhmann surely asked that question and no photo was forthcoming.
by WarBuck46410 on May 31, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Not that easy
The paper trail begins and ends at Tressel. That’s why he had to (eventually) go. With the tattoo and other new allegations, the NCAA will need a source. Dohrman ain’t turning over his notes (and if he does, that BS). The only ones that can be forced to talk are current players, and past players, if they do talk, seem to implicate themselves as knowing they were violating rules but didn’t care.
That said, i’m not whistling past the graveyard here. Some serious stuff is coming down.
I am sure Dohrmann would turn over his source. If he can connect his investigation to the “downfall” of Ohio State, that is worth an award of some kind, and Dohrmann is all about the awards.
The issue is whether the sources will cooperate.
Latest from Torg
who has been plugged into the Dohrmann thing from the beginning. The NCAA will interview “Ellis” and grant him anonymity.
This is not good as they can use these allegations for a to build a new notice of infractions based on an anonymous source. OSU would then have to defend itself wihout knowing the source of the allegations. So much for due process…
I will have to research the NCAA’s policy on anonymous sources and testimony, but I’m not sure there’s a precedent with an anonymous source during a hearing. They can set off an investigation, obviously, but I cannot recall any instances where an anonymous source was the lynchpin of an NCAA case.
97.1 reported tonight that “Ellis” was incorrect in about half of his allegations, as well, and the wrongly accused are investigating a legal response to Sports Illustrated. “Ellis” may not be a reliable source.
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