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Expansion: The Dollars and Sense

Some say that money is the root of all evil. Recently, some have surmised NCAA conference realignment to be pure evil. So putting two and two together, inevitably using some algebraic property I learned in school, we can safely suggest money is the root of expansion.

See what I did there?

College expansion is undoubtedly on its way. It's really not if, but when. In the meantime, we must wait patiently as we watch conference commissioners entertain us in a rousing public game of Pinochle. And absolutely: conferences will ante up because of money.

Ever since rumors of expansion heated up in December 2009, Big 12 czar Dan Beebe has watched helplessly as his conference slowly crumbles. Though he pulled a rabbit out of his hat last summer when Fox Sport stepped up with a television deal reportedly worth $90 million a year, which temporarily saved the league from extinction, Beebe's pointed ultimatums and untimely lectures have done little to mend irreparable relationships.

Tuesday, in an interview with the Dallas Morning News, Beebe stoked the fire a little bit more, urging Texas A&M to expedite their decision whether or not to change conference zip codes.

"We can't operate with an institution waiting to decide if it wants to remain in the conference. There has to be a very short time for an institution to commit," he said with seemingly some agitation in his voice.

Therein is the rub. If it were up to Texas A&M, they'd already be in the SEC. But Beebe's public posturing, veiled threats and the constant chatter from in-state rival Texas has caused hesitation by both the SEC and A&M legal representation. No one is concerned these idle warnings will be a road block to expansion, but Beebe's own words have been the reason for due diligence.

As the Big 12 continues on the defensive and the collective sports nation sits on the edge of their seats waiting for a move, other conferences have likely been brushing up in preparation for round two of expansion. Combing through financials, agreements, television ratings and other relevant documents, commissioners have calculators on 24-hour standby.

It was Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany's outside-the-box thinking that has us in wait-and-see mode.

Star-divide

Back in 2006, Delany took a calculated risk, launching the Big Ten Network. Many skeptics argued at the time that a conference-specific television channel would not survive, much less add to the long-term success and stability of the entire league. Fortunately for Big Ten institutions, Delany has never been one to listen to critics.

Saving the conference capital, the Big Ten turned to News Corp., parent company of Fox, to front the initial $80 million investment. In exchange, the Big Ten offered 49 percent of the newly-created L.L.C in a 25-year partnership.

Since launching in August 2007, the network has grown to 45 million subscribers - 18 million within the league's nine-state footprint and 27.5 million without - and is projected to run over $250 million in operating revenue this fiscal year. According to figures from the fiscal research firm SNL Kagan, the network is bringing in about $45 million in advertising, meaning the rest is coming from subscriber fees.

When a network is placed on cable, it negotiates with carriers for the highest possible price. Cable and satellite operators pay the network a fixed rate for every subscriber they have. Ideally, the network would like the channel to be placed on a basic cable package, meaning every customer would be paying for the channel.

When the Big Ten Network is placed on a package within the current geographical region, the network earns an average of 80 cents per month for each cable subscriber of any tier the network is placed. Outside the region, the current average is roughly 5 cents per month, and in many markets the network is an optional add-on through a sports tier. SNL Kagan figures from last year show the network to average almost 40 cents a month nationally.

It's for this reason the Big Ten set out to expand last year: by growing the conference footprint, it increases the number of homes the network appears, thus raising revenues.

The network turned a profit in 2009, just its third year in existence. The conference is guaranteed rights fees by the network that escalate an estimated 3 percent each year. This year, the conference is expected to receive roughly $80 million for broadcasting live and syndicated programming.

What's important, however, is that once News Corp. receives a full return on investment, they and the conference will begin sharing operating profits. Reportedly, they have already recouped this investment and the Big Ten member institutions will start receiving profits above and beyond the minimum rights fees as soon as this season.

Though Delany continues to be coy in regard to additional expansion, it remains a huge long-term priority in the Park Ridge, Ill. offices. And for that reason, Mike Slive and Larry Scott won't soon sit tight in the SEC and Pac-12 domiciles.

The three men all have very different needs to consider.

For the Big Ten, the math is simple: add a greater share of the current 115.9 million television households that currently exist. The larger number of cable-ready houses the network penetrates, the more money it will receive. The Big Ten's research arm, the Committee on Institutional Cooperation, is a secondary factor as the conference presidents would also like to continue to increase the academic profile and grow research R&D.

Mike Slive, meanwhile, is simply looking for teams that will give him the most bang for the buck. The conference's primary rights-holder, ESPN, now is on in over 100 million homes. Since ESPN has distribution agreements with every major conference, the footprint is less of a factor for the SEC as is adding teams that will cater to ratings. Being a flagship university in the state of Texas, TAMU is a solid first step if it comes to fruition.

For the Pac-12, both ratings and footprint matters. Scott has been busy for the past year readying to launch his own network. Unlike the Big Ten, the Pac-12 Network will fly solo without investors. On one hand, this means keeping all the profits. On the other hand, it means more costly startup and the burden of negotiating with cable operators. Scott will attempt to find a happy medium in future expansion between ratings and growing their channel.

The dynamic of expansion is simple: football is the conversation starter. Over the last 10 years, analyzing direct revenues generated by each school, bowl revenues including the BCS accounted for over $270 million in present dollars (before bowl expenses). Further, according to a 2008 study by the Center for Media Research, over $450 million is paid during the regular season annually by advertisers for college football games. In contrast: the NCAA Tournament paid back $160 million to the men's basketball fund and just shy of $200 million in advertising generated during the regular season. That means football is responsible for almost 86% more revenue over the last 10 years.

On a per-game basis, advertising is earned at an average rate of nearly $700,000 per each of the seasons 650-700 football games. Meanwhile, with roughly 1,300-1,500 of the season's 5,500 basketball games televised, each is worth about $150,000 in advertising.

This is corroborated by the average ratings. According to the Sports Business Daily, of some 200 major games broadcast in 2010 by CBS, ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, NBC and Versus, the average rating was an estimated 1.9. Meanwhile, according to ESPN figures, the average men's basketball game received a 1.1 rating or otherwise 1.1 percent of some 115.9 million households tuning in. The average ESPN2 game, however, was a 0.4 rating or roughly 450,000 households.

What this means is that in the nearly billion dollars of rights fees that will be paid to member conferences going forward, basketball is a huge portion of the pie but not the part it was baked for.

When expansion rolls around again soon, we'll be looking at teams that can get viewers to tune in; exist, ideally, in larger markets; and, unless they can provide an uncanny share from basketball (Duke or North Carolina), teams will certainly need to be at least adequate football programs.

Now that we've discussed the evils, stay tuned for part two. We'll look over the prominent names in expansion talks all over the country, and analyze what the numbers say about the revenues they're bringing to the table. I'll also throw out a crazy expansion idea that is off the wall, but not necessarily unheard of.

Until then, I'll wait with Beebe for an absolution.

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Buckeyes Run Past Greyhounds

Mar 2012 by KyleSLamb - 3 comments

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It is a nice try to boost the significance of basketball...

…but you have already seen the numbers and know better.

Last year $16.6 Million/member in shared revenue came from Television.
1. $9.2 Million comes from ABC/ESPN. They didn’t split football and basketball, but given that the old CBS contract averaged $2 Million/year to the CONFERENCE, and these were the weekday and 2nd choice games, you can reasonably conclude about $8 Million of this contract comes from Football.
2. Reports cite the BTN contributing $7.9 Million/member. It would be fair to attribute this revenue in about the same proportions as the other broadcast contracts.
Note – with an over 20% increase it is safe to say we are into full revenue sharing mode now.3. I am not certain of the CBS extension amount, but the old contract which ran out in 2010 was worth only about $2 Million/year to the CONFERENCE.
It is a stretch to have NCAABB account for 15% of shared broadcast revenue. 10% is more realistic.

Post Season Revenue
While you point out the totals for the entire post season, the Big Ten received under $14 Million from the basketball fund last year.
Compare this to the CCG which is expected to earn around $25 Million its inaugural year from host and broadcaster.
Or compare this to the BCS which paid $21.2 Million to AQ conferences sending 1 team and $27.2 Million to AQs sending 2 teams.
The result is 2 football games worth over $50 Million compared to an entire NCAABB post season worth under $14 Million.
It would be a stretch to value the NCAABB at 25% of the post season revenue. 20% is a more realistic number.

Shared Gate Receipts
Shared home football gate receipt tops out at $1 Million for 4 home conference games, or $4 Million total for a season. The minimum is $1.2 Million. The average for 2009 was about $2.9 Million/member. This benefited 6 members of the conference as much as $1,6 Million. The total was $32.9

Shared basketball gate receipts tops out at $67,000 per conference home game or less than $700K. The minimum is $29K or less than $300K for the season. Because it is so small, this benefited only 3 members. They didn’t list the amounts, but it would have to be under $7 Million.

Basketball accounts for under 20% of the shared gate revenue, The single lowest football program gained more than all of the basketball programs. You better believe football matters a lot more here.

Expanding into other revenue
The info is a bit dated, it didn’t include PSU or NW, and I suspect there are some hidden costs by the University, but in terms of program net revenue outside shared revenue:
Football earns about $140 Million for the conference, Basketball makes about $70 Million, or about 1/3 the total. Basketball isn’t going to make up the lackings in shared revenue by increasing revenue in other sources.

Looking Forward
In the spirit of the South Park underwear gnomes where the business plan was:
1. Collect underwear
2. ?
3. Profits

…you place basketball as a huge portion of the pie while citing numbers that apply outside the BCS schools.

Looking forward…
1. NCAABB broadcast contract will go up as viewership climbs, but NCAAF viewership is climbing faster. The BB broadcast contracts will never be more than a fraction of football and looks to be falling further behind.
2. The BCS revenue is gaining around 10%/year, the CCG expect to climb over 20% in 5 years, while the NCAABB is adding a LOT more mouths to feed at the BB tourney table. The NCAAF post season will continue to be worth much more than the BB post season and looks to broaden the difference. Delany expressed similar concerns.
3. In shared gate receipts the system isn’t structured to favor BB even if BB somehow got a boost. Football tickets are climbing rapidly around the league as it widens the gap with basketball.
4. With the rise in football tickets, the gap in other revenue for the sports looks to widen the gap between football and basketball.

Looking forward, the revenue significance of football over basketball looks to widen. Like the underwear gnomes, there is no step 2 to make up the difference.

There is just too much difference for a basketball school to overcome.
1. 15% high (more likely around 10%) of the shared broadcast revenue.
2. 25% high (more likely under 20%) of the post season revenue.
3. Under 20% of the shared gate receipts and a pittance of the net difference.
4. 1/3 of total other net revenue sources.
5. Looking forward, most projections favoring football widening the gap.
This is why Big Ten expansion is all about football. Basketball revenue isn’t a big enough revenue source for a hugely successful program to make up for an about average football draw, but a top football program can easily make up for a nearly non-existent basketball draw..

References:
http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/expense_stat/show?school_id=119
http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=6057935
http://m.huskerextra.com/mobile/article_1ba16b11-7b08-5e67-8fd6-c9b9ff167366.html
http://my.journalstar.com/post/Husker_Extra_Group/Husker_Extra/blog/btns_value_to_league_members_rising.html
http://www.mwcboard.com/www/forums/index.php?showtopic=24304

by ProveIt on Aug 18, 2011 11:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Where to begin...

First, it should be noted you are conflating local revenue with national revenue. I left out local revenue because while it has an indirect impact on league revenues, it is not a direct impact and that’s what I’m focusing on, as I’m looking for value-added to a league. Indirect value matters, but is not enough of a focus on the calculation to spend time analyzing.

RE: television revenue

The new CBS deal reportedly was for about $3 million a year. However, a HUGE point that you’re missing when comparing such revenue: the contract with CBS was for only 20 regular season games. The ESPN deal included both football and basketball. So it’s impossible to compare the two without having precise figures as to the delegation of funds. Most contracts don’t specify that. The Big East actually did specify that, and reportedly basketball, not football, accounted for 2/3 of their contract with ESPN. This is admittedly rare, but the point is that it’s not an open-and-shut case.

It’s convenient, though, you ignore how the advertising dollars were spent. This suggests the gap is not as wide as you’re making it sound. About $450 million a year spent on advertising for football; about $180-200 for basketball. Not sure why you’d take issue with those researched numbers other than you simply don’t want to accept the reality. These numbers matter more than anything because they suggest the overall profitability of the sports in question. These advertising revenues are how the networks proportionately base initial estimates of their contracts. Of course, because of the popularity of football, sometimes there are bidding wars for the limited number of games. It’s basic supply and demand. This sometimes causes a greater discrepancy in sport distribution. However, the numbers simple don’t support the inference you’re trying to draw.

RE: postseason

Worst case of cherry-picking stats I’ve ever seen. The total bowl revenue and BCS combined was $270 million paid out. The total basketball fund was $160 million. That’s all that matters. We’re looking at the macro not the micro. Even if we only look at the Big Ten total bowl payouts relative to the men’s basketball fund, you still get a similar ratio.

In 2010, thebowl payouts were $16 million for the Big Ten on top of $27 million for the BCS. That’ $43 million compared to $15.3 million for the basketball fund. Two things should be noted here: 1) the bowl payouts are BEFORE expenses. The actual realized amounts are significantly less than this whereas the basketball expenses are paid by the NCAA separately; and 2) I did not even include the academic fund and other direct revenue received on account of the NCAA Tournament in this calculation. The actual academic (grants-in-aid) portion of the NCAA revenue paid an additional $11 million to the Big Ten this past season.

By the way… the championship game is not considered postseason. It’s considered an extension of the regular season as it goes toward crowning a champion. Further, by that logic, then we also have to add in revenue added by the basketball conference tournaments which draw solid TV ratings and are responsible for some of the value of the television contracts. But we won’t do that because neither championships are actually postseason games.

RE: Gate Sharing

The league doesn’t collect gate sharing for basketball. That’s only a football thing. So the numbers’ comparison is irrelevant there other than to say it’s an indirect value added to a conference. But it doesn’t create any new revenue except when additional conference games are added. That revenue is always being made, it’s just being taken from one school and given to another.

final thoughts

It’s odd, really, that I’d write an article that surmises football is the primary motivating force in expansion, a point I’ve always readily admitted, and you’d feel compelled to haggle over such nuances as to how important basketball really is. What’s the point, really? I’m up for discussion but it seems like you’re trying to dismiss the larger numbers and focus on certain things to distort reality.

Whether you like it or not, basketball does generate significant revenue. It’s never going to be on the level of football, or at least in the near future, but while it appears basketball tormented you as a kid, it’s still a revenue-producer. If (read: when) the NCAA goes to a football playoff, the revenue will most definitely blow basketball out of the water, as it could fetch nearly $1 billion a year in revenue on top of the differences in regular season dollars.

That said, it’s been reported several times that college basketball ratings were actually at an all-time high last year; CBS actually added an additional $100 million per year to this new contract with Turner to broadcast the NCAA Tournament, indicating college basketball is on the rise (not decline as you’re suggesting); there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest college football revenue, namely the BCS, is rising at a rate any faster than that of its basketball counterpart.

by KyleSLamb on Aug 19, 2011 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

What does the Patriot Conference share of NCAA tourney have to do with Big Tenm expansion?

Why go to National numbers when league numbers are available and more accurate?
I suspect you didn’t like what the league numbers were saying.

The new CBS deal reportedly was for about $3 million a year
…so we are now up to a whopping $250K per program.
If the other portion of the BB contract is WAY overvalued at 7 times this amount it still wouldn’t account for the decrease in BCS revenue per program with another mouth at the table.
This goes to the crux of the argument – NCAABB just doesn’t generate enough revenue to be relevant in conference expansion.
However, a HUGE point that you’re missing when comparing such revenue: the contract with CBS was for only 20 regular season games. The ESPN deal included both football and basketball.

No, I took this into account in comparing the old contracts that were signed at similar times and looking at conferences that still split the contracts rather than claiming “It can’t be determined”.

It is like comparing the change in your pocket to Bill Gates bank account - the difference is so large it doesn’t matter if you underestimate your pocket change by several factors.

So it’s impossible to compare the two without having precise figures as to the delegation of funds.

I m using the BB only numbers and projecting on the combined rather than trying to claim there is no comparison.

You quickly find yourself arguing whether football broadcasting revenue is 6 times or over 10 times the amount of basketball – either way, BB is insignificant by comparison.

It’s convenient, though, you ignore how the advertising dollars were spent.
This is false – I don’t see a reason to split it out from the rest and include the entire nation when you can look at the value directly thru the broadcasting revenue for the conference.

What you conveniently overlook is that the basketball revenue is split among a lot more platers at the table.

You are looking nationwide at a sub-category in hopes of giving NCAABB a glimmer of similarity.

Worst case of cherry-picking stats I’ve ever seen. The total bowl revenue and BCS combined was $270 million paid out. The total basketball fund was $160 million
This is false – ignoring the irrelevant is not cherry picking, but your inclusion is ,misleading.

How much the MAC and Colonial makes in the post season is irrelevant to Big Ten expansion..

How much the Big Ten makes is entirely relevant, and goes to the core of why BB is insignificant in Big Ten expansion.

1) the bowl payouts are BEFORE expenses.
After bowl expenses and before BB expenses the bowls are still more than double.

the championship game is not considered postseason. It’s considered an extension of the regular season as it goes toward crowning a champion. Further, by that logic, then we also have to add in revenue added by the basketball conference tournaments which draw solid TV ratings and are responsible for some of the value of the television contracts.

Lumpinmg the Big Ten BB tourney with the already tiny BB broadcast contract doesn’t help your case.

If it makes you feel better, I will increase it to 25% and change the phrasing to “Post Season and Conference Championship/Tourney” – it still doesn’t move a dime to BB or make BB significant.

The league doesn’t collect gate sharing for basketball.
If you follow the references, you will see this is false.

I will agree the BB gate receipt sharing isn’t noteworthy, but an extra $1 Million +/- from football is a factor worth noting (after all, you are heralding a $250K/team BB broadcast contract)

it (gate receipt sharing) doesn’t create any new revenue
This is false – If you bring in a program that takes more from the shared gate receipts than it adds, it is indeed a decrease in revenue for all members.

If you bring in a program that pays in more than it takes, it is indeed a revenue source for all programs.

The difference from a single program in football can be nearly as much as the CBS BB broadcast contract, but in BB the difference is insignificant.

It’s odd, really, that I’d write an article that surmises football is the primary motivating force in expansion, a point I’ve always readily admitted, and you’d feel compelled to haggle over such nuances as to how important basketball really is. What’s the point, really?
If you don’t want comments on the topic, don’t post a blog about it.
Whether you like it or not, basketball does generate significant revenue.
You just went thru 10 paragraphs where you didn’t add a dime to BB shared revenue, and barely dented football.

When it only accounts for 20%+/- you have to redefine relevant to make BB revenue matter in conference expansion.

A top football program fielding a club caliber BB team can make up the revenue difference if it generates 125% or more of the average Big Ten football team.

…but basketball revenue is just too small to realistically make up a deficit in football because the revenue streams simply aren’t there.

CBS actually added an additional $100 million per year to this new contract with Turner to broadcast the NCAA Tournament,

The NCAABB tourney went up about 50% over 12 years.
The Big Ten CBS contract went up about 50% over 10 years.
This is not big growth numbers for BB. Football broadcast contracts are more than doubling over similar time spans.
there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest college football revenue, namely the BCS, is rising at a rate any faster than that of its basketball counterpart.
This is false. You are heralding a 50% increase in the BB tourney over a decade as it significantly increases the number of moths at the table, meanwhile the BCS grew nearly 20% last year alone with the same number of games.

Evidence is everywhere – it just doesn’t fit your conclusion and you feel it should therefore be ignored.

by ProveIt on Aug 19, 2011 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Which article has the basketball gate sharing reference? I didn’t see it (and I’ve not heard of it), though there’s a lot to shift through.

by rogerja on Aug 19, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I thought I listed it with the others.

http://www.google.com/search?q=big+ten+gate+sharing&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7ADSA_en
1st link
http://thegazette.com/2010/08/11/iowa-football-loses-iowa-basketball-gains-in-big-ten-revenue-sharing/

Perhaps a side by side listing would help make it clearer than percentages:
Per Team Basis:

Basketball
$1,358K – NCAA Tourney, the highest amount given in this discussion.
$250K – new CBS BB only contract yearly average, high for next year
$1,608K Sub-total Conference tourney part of TV contracts

Football
$1,917K CCG estimate of $20M broadcast, $5M host, $2M expenses, low estimate
$2,250K Bowl net allowing about $2M/team/game expense allotment, low estimate.
$4,167 Sub total

Not split is the beef of the shared revenue – $16,600K TV Broadcasting
$8,200K ESPN BB and football
$7,900K BTN has been commonly listed
Sure, you can claim it can’t be known, and point to advertising for the 350 or so BB programs and include mid majors while ignoring the Big Ten revenue numbers that can be tracked.

…but it’s not just a “Little difference” It is a huge difference.

I can take the 1st selection rights contract of CBS which includes the beefy semi-finals of the conference tourney, make the ESPN and BTN worth a whopping 15 times this amount, and it comes out to $3.8 M for basketball compared to $12.3 M for football.

The totals of the above:
$5,4M Basketball, 25%
$16.5M football 75%
BB is only this close because I took the average of the CBS contract, not next year.
I multiplied the CBS by 15 times to get the total for the rest of the BB broadcast contracts because it is so lopsided I could, not because it is reasonable.
I only looked at next year’s football CCG revenue and gave a high cost estimate.
I gave a high estimate for bowl travel expenses.
I didn’t include the potential difference in shared ticket revenue which favors FB.
I didn’t look at other program revenue sources which favors football.
I used high revenue estimates for BB and low estimates for FB.
Realistically 20% of the shared revenue from BB would be high and 10-15% realistic.
I can’t even find enough places to plausibly exaggerate for BB to be relevant.

Big Ten expansion is all about football.
BB fans will have to hope roundball picks up a program that is notable in both sports.

by ProveIt on Aug 19, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

So let's get this straight...

You use your own figures that show basketball is 25% of the shared league revenue, then fudge the general conclusions to surmise that “10-15%” is realistic. That’s some interesting accounting you got there.

All the other “sources” of revenue you mention but not implicitly show are irrelevant anyhow, because they’re not direct sources of league revenue. Other forms of revenue (i.e. ticket sales, gate sharing, etc.) are just direct sources of money that are generated by the schools themselves and not really forms of revenue for the conference.

RE: men’s basketball tournament revenue

You’ve been acting like the men’s basketball fund is blatantly lopsided in favor of all the other non-FBS conferences. Yet, the reality is that 75% of the entire men’s basketball fund last year went to the 11 FBS conferences, and probably 80-90% of the advertising dollars generated on the whole go to those conferences.

So your dismissal of those numbers is an extremely huge flaw in your analysis. It’s literally cherry-picking.

By the way: the article(s) I’ve written are about expansion in general, not just the Big Ten. So contrary to your assertion, it’s not prudent to simply look at the Big Ten in a vacuum and represent that to be indicative of football/basketball as a whole.

by KyleSLamb on Aug 20, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

To get it straight...
You use your own figures that show basketball is 25% of the shared league revenue

I took all of the figures I could find…
…used the HIGHEST estimates for BB I could find…
…used the LOWEST numbers for football…
…making the secondary BB broadcast contracts worth 15 TIMES the primary contract…
…worth repeating twice, making the secondary BB contracts 15x the primary…
…and BB still only came up to 25%.

If you put in a reasonable estimate for the secondary BB broadcast revenue alone
at 3 times the CBS contract you get 10%
at 7 times the CBS contract you get 15%
at 11 times the CBS contract you get 20%
…and I am still using HIGH estimates for the rest of the BB revenue
…and I am still using LOW estimates for the rest of the FB revenue.

…and you consider this unfair to BB?
Good luck with crying foul when every number used is slanted your way.

All the other "sources" of revenue you mention but not implicitly show are irrelevant anyhow, because they’re not direct sources of league revenue.

From programs that don’t regularly sell out their arenas, to programs looking to boost season ticket sales and booster membership for 1st option at the best games, and for shared gate revenue, who is on the schedule does have a substantial impact.

in these, the FB impact is much larger than the BB. None of these were included in the estimate that is heavily slanted to BB yet still criticized because it doesn’t support your assertion.

You’ve been acting like the men’s basketball fund is blatantly lopsided in favor of all the other non-FBS conferences.

This is false – I consider looking at the MAC, MWC, Patriot, and other conferences irrelevant when you have the Big Ten numbers readily available.
Yet, the reality is that 75% of the entire men’s basketball fund last year went to the 11 FBS conferences, and probably 80-90% of the advertising dollars generated on the whole go to those conferences.

If you are going to project the effect of BB on Big Ten revenue, the Big Ten revenue is where you start… not the revenue of the MAC, MWC, and others.

You may not like that the revenue of BB is tiny compared to FB, but your distaste for reality does not alter reality.

So your dismissal of those numbers is an extremely huge flaw in your analysis. It’s literally cherry-picking.

This is false. The tourney revenue is included.
I dismiss the revenue of other leagues in talking about Big Ten revenue.

Dismissing the irrelevant isn’t cherry picking or a flaw, it is critical thinking.
Your inclusion of the irrelevant to support your assertion is sophistry.

By the way: the article(s) I’ve written are about expansion in general, not just the Big Ten.

You are a little late to try to broaden the discussion to make your assertions relevant.

I have only discussed the Big Ten. Most of your comments only relate to the Big Ten. The few times you use major FBS conference numbers they are usually from the Big Ten. The 3 conferences you noted in your blog have revenue heavily slanted to FB over BB.

by ProveIt on Aug 20, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huh?

I must be out of my mind because I could swear I spoke specifically in the article about the different objectives of expansion for the SEC and Pac-12 as well as the Big Ten. So I’m not “late” in making this about the overall impacts of expansion and not just about the Big Ten. Considering I clearly specified in the article that there are a lot of different factors, it’s more apt that you’re narrowing the discussion than I am broadening it.

The issue here is and always has been: what is the value of basketball compared to football. To know that, we need an apples to apples comparison across the whole landscape (you know, sample size).

You’re trying to limit the scope of the discussion because the numbers don’t support the position you’re taking. The subject is Division I FBS revenue. Clearly, in a subject relating to the value of football and basketball, we need division-wide totals for a more accurate comparison of the value of each sport.

To dismiss these totals or ignore them is misguided.

Anyhow, I’m bored of this narrative. You’ve really, honestly made too big a deal about this. I spent the article mostly talking about how football is the primary factor, and supported that hypothesis with factual evidence. It’s just strange, then, that it bothers you so much that I didn’t go out of my way to completely browbeat the sport to death. I’m sorry that you hate basketball so much. Clearly, though, if you are going to such great lengths to try and show it’s really only “10-15%” instead of “25%” of the pie, there’s no other conclusion one can draw other than to say you must really dislike the sport.

by KyleSLamb on Aug 20, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Way too late to make this case....

This was based on your comment “By the way: the article(s) I’ve written are about expansion in general…”

…and your subsequent claim… “So your dismissal of those numbers is an extremely huge flaw…” because I consider references inclusion of the mid majors irrelevant.

…both of which are self-contradictory to " I spoke specifically in the article about the different objectives of expansion for the SEC and Pac-12 as well as the Big Ten…"

Which is self-contradictory to "…we need an apples to apples comparison across the whole landscape " so that you can include the mid majors.

1. As you try to fit the evidence to your conclusion, and try to dismiss the relevant, you can expect self-contradiction to be more relevant. You will find it works much better if you base your conclusions on the evidence.

2. Good luck claiming mid major revenue is more applicable to the majors than majors’ only revenue. The mid majors do not have the same split in revenue.

Another dozen paragraphs trying to dodge the revenue question, claiming revenue figures heavily slanted to favor your assertion is somehow unfair, will not alter that BB is a small part of the revenue.

My claim is simple and does not require self-contradictions to make the evidence relevant: If expansion is driven by revenue, and BB is an insignificant part of the revenue that cannot make up for poor or even near average BB revenue performance, then BB is not a factor in conference expansion.;

You’re trying to limit the scope of the discussion because the numbers don’t support the position you’re taking.

This is false. In trying to compare all of BB to all of FB, you are increasing the number of programs about 3x for BB and including lesser conferences with operate on substantially different financial dynamics.

I don’t dismiss it because it contradicts my conclusion, I dismiss them because they are irrelevant.

To dismiss these totals or ignore them is misguided.

This is false. Unless you can bring forth some additional revenue overlooked, basaketball’s revenue at 1/6th to 1/10th makes it irrelevant to conference expansion.

Dismissing the irrelevant is not misguided, it is critical thinking.
Including the irrelevant is sophistry.

…cue the hurt martyr red herring (my favorite part)…

Anyhow, I’m bored of this narrative.

You would have been better served a long time ago following critical thinking rather than a false belief that with just the right phrase you can make the irrelevant seem relevant and dismiss the small revenue contribution of BB compared to FB.

It’s just strange, then, that it bothers you so much that I didn’t go out of my way to completely browbeat the sport to death.

This is false. I am drawn as a form of entertainment to shoot down sophistry,. No bother or browbeating involved.

I’m sorry that you hate basketball so much.

This is false. It is not my favoritism of a sport that makes it relevant or irrelevant in expansion. It is BB’s small revenue contribution that makes it irrelevant.

if you are going to such great lengths to try and show it’s really only "10-15%" instead of "25%" of the pie,

It wasn’t great lengths to show BB is only 10-15% of the revenue, it was going to great lengths to make it 25%. Perhaps you would like to explain how tilting all of the estimates in favor of your assertion was unfair to you.

If you don’t like critical comments on a topic, don’t blog it.
if you don’t like reading counter arguments, don’t participate in a forum.
If you don’t like having your exaggerations and attempts at sophistry pointed out, don’t exaggerate or attempt sophistry.
if you don’t like that reality does not support your view of the world, try drugs or alcohol.

Playing the martyr is laughable.

by ProveIt on Aug 21, 2011 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

The SEC and ACC have other problems financing expansion.

Silve may be able to list 7 candidates off the top of his head, but I doubt ESPN could.

The Big Ten was able to finance the addition of Nebraska without touching the broadcast contracts. The PAC can do the same with their own planned network.

But the ACC and SEC need to 1st negotiate an increase in he broadcast contract with ESPN. It is not enough to just negotiate an even amount as is currently shared since some shared revenue sources are fixed for the conference (such as BCS).

ESPN already holds or shares most NCAAF rights. These conferences need to find a program well above average for their revenue stream and have it be a good choice for ESPN.

ESPN might be motivated if it meant keeping a program out of the PAC or Big Ten, or collecting a top draw from the Big 12.

I would be surprised if ESPN financed Silve’s expansion into the ACC. They already own ACC rights at far less then it would cost to own them in the SEC, and they have no interest in dropping the value of their investment in the rest of the ACC.

I doubt there is value in the East or the mid majors to justify the increased broadcast contract, leaving the ACC and SEC looking at the Big 12 (along with everyone else).

by ProveIt on Aug 18, 2011 11:39 PM EDT reply actions  

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